A 65-year-old former nurse has delivered a withering telling off to the Archbishop of Westminster – England’s most senior Catholic – for his stance on gay marriage.
The woman, who now works with animals and lives in northern England, says she has been married for 30 years but gay marriage doesn’t threaten the status of her relationship whatsoever.
And she says Archbishop Vincent Nichols and his church have become obsessed with gay sex, ignoring the real problems of society – the economy, schools, hospitals and our children’s future.
She tells him the so-called ‘Princes of the Church’ should ditch the ‘silk, the gold, the Gucci shoes, the ridiculous tall hats’ in favor of a simple pilgrim’s staff and get on with helping real people.
And she says Jesus ‘appears to have happily shared meals with prostitutes, drunkards, lepers, Gentiles and I do not doubt with people of same-sex orientation’.
Nichols has campaigned vigorously against same-sex marriage but she warns him the church’s propaganda calling homosexuality ‘disordered’ and ‘evil’ makes it impossible for the LGBT faithful to feel at home in Catholicism.
She has requested to remain anonymous but asked GSN to share her letter. We understand that she has received a reply from Nichols, but it failed to address the substance of her comments.
You can read her letter here:
Dear Archbishop,
I listened to your letter of Sunday 3 February in which you asked us as a matter of urgency to either send a postcard provided or write to our local MP to request him to vote against the government’s proposed legislation to legalize same-sex marriage. I came out of the church with two thoughts and one resolve. Firstly I thought ‘Lord pity and help any gay person sitting listening to that letter’ not a word a charity or understanding did it contain. Secondly I thought or asked ‘Where in that is the love of Christ for all humankind?’ My resolve was not to contact my MP.
That decision was not made because of the tone of your letter however. I do not find it at all easy or even possible to uphold the church’s teaching on homosexuality. Among gay people of my acquaintance are those who have a deep spiritual life, to have one’s sexual orientation, an orientation that one is born with, described as an ‘objective disorder’ and to hear homosexual acts described as ‘intrinsically evil’ surely makes it almost impossible to feel at home or welcome in the church. It is utterly unrealistic to expect homosexual people to live celibate lives (We all know that many priests find this very difficult and sometimes impossible). The revelations of clerical sex abuse have led many of us to look with a very critical eye on the so-called celibate life and to realize that it has all to often lead to warped and destructive behavior.
To return to same-sex marriage, can it be abhorrent that two people of the same sex would wish to experience that emotional and physical closeness that marriage offers? We believe that God is love and so it must follow that in every loving and committed relationship God must be present – or does this, in your understanding, only apply in heterosexual relationships? Is heterosexuality more valued by God and by the church than homosexuality? You are, I suppose, aware that there are more than a few homosexual men in the priesthood and that nowadays heterosexual men are much less willing to embrace the celibate life. Is the good work done by such men less valuable in the eyes of this church? If so is it further evidence of its dysfunctional state?
I am 65 years of age and have been married for almost 30 years. I would so have appreciated an explanation from you or any of the hierarchy exactly how my long and happy marriage will be threatened by the union of gay couples. When I meet people in my day to day existence they talk about the economic climate (bad), lack of employment (bad), uncertain future for their children (bad), state of schools, hospitals (bad) – never ever has anybody expressed concern about a threat to their marriage by the proposed legalizing of same-sex marriage. You, the church, claim that marriage is the bedrock of society and indeed it is but you also seem to consider it so fragile that allowing a few gay people access to it will endanger it forever. Here the implicit homophobia cannot be ignored.
Sadly you still think your pronouncements will be accepted without question by a meek credulous herd. You have spent far too much time telling us just how sinful we are while drawing veils of respectability over your own grievous wrongdoings.
I sometimes despair of this church, this institution. It seems to me in my reading of the Gospels that Jesus had no problem whatsoever with those who were considered outsiders or exceptions. He appears to have happily shared meals with prostitutes, drunkards, lepers, Gentiles and I do not doubt with people of same-sex orientation since such an orientation has existed since time began. The church seems much happier with its version of order over compassion and love towards the so-called exceptions. It has an appalling history of excluding and torturing those who do not think or subscribe to its definition of ‘right’.
The world is facing disaster on all levels and this church, when not obsessing about matters sexual, spends an inordinate amount of time on pointless activities such as changing the liturgy back to a correct translation of the original Latin – a language not spoken by Jesus but spoken by the oppressors of his time and country. Do you imagine that this obsession with precisely translated texts will win you a single new adherent? To me, you (particularly but not exclusively the hierarchy) appear to be a frightened group of men preoccupied with titles, clothing and other religious externals. You seem, with some wonderful and brave exceptions, to pay only lip service to ecumenism and matters of social justice. I would love to see the so-called ‘Princes of the Church’ (Where did all these triumphant, utterly anti-Gospel titles you award yourselves come from?) get rid of the silk, the gold, the Gucci shoes, the ridiculous tall hats, croziers, fancy soutanes etc etc and substitute bare heads and a simple pilgrim’s staff on all liturgical occasions and that might be taken as a small outward sign of your inner acceptance of fundamental Gospel values.
I seem to have digressed somewhat but to return to where I started, same-sex marriage. I will always be unsure of the validity of any principle or opinion that makes one act in an unkind or intolerant way. Toleration, of course, has its limits, I want you to cry out against injustice and cruelty. Explain to me please exactly how marriage will be ‘changed forever’ by the proposed new laws, specifically tell me how my marriage will be threatened.
I admit that I am not very well versed on biblical texts and I know that there are those who can find a text to confirm any prejudice without having to resort to any sort of reasonable debate but surely if we accept one piece of scripture (Lev 18:22) which declares homosexuality to be an abomination, to judge what is right or wrong, we must accept them all. Following this logic we are therefore forbidden to wear garments made of two different kinds of thread (Lev 19:19), men must never have their hair trimmed especially around the temples (Lev 19:27). According to Lev 25:44 I may possess slaves provided they are purchased from neighboring nations, not sure if this applies to non-members of the EU! As for organizing the stoning of transgressors – well, a logistical nightmare!
Archbishop, we have grasped the principles of evolution, stopped burning witches and holding heresy trials, discounted the flat earth theory. Do you now think we could move the debate about equal human rights for people of same-sex orientation and also the status of women in the church on by a few millennia please?
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I *love* it! :D
"To me, you (particularly but not exclusively the hierarchy) appear to be a frightened group of men preoccupied with titles, clothing and other religious externals. You seem, with some wonderful and brave exceptions, to pay only lip service to ecumenism and matters of social justice. I would love to see the so-called ‘Princes of the Church’ (Where did all these triumphant, utterly anti-Gospel titles you award yourselves come from?) get rid of the silk, the gold, the Gucci shoes, the ridiculous tall hats, croziers, fancy soutanes etc etc and substitute bare heads and a simple pilgrim’s staff on all liturgical occasions and that might be taken as a small outward sign of your inner acceptance of fundamental Gospel values."
The gay and liberal communities (yes, I said they're two different things - oh noes!) are constantly fed a line about Christian people (especially Catholics) and straight people over a certain age not being on their side. Clearly rubbish. This woman is awesome, and is only one of a few in the above religious and/ or age-and-sexuality demographic I've met who think that the church's stance on gay marriage is ludicrous, when there are so many better things it could be spending resource on... My Christian friends are generally open-minded, generous people who consider love a great gift, in whatever form, and treat me as their friend first, and a gay non-Christian way down the line.
I could not have summed it up better myself.. It is about time they focused on Other issues that are really screwing up the world today!!
I do wonder about the future for the Church if it continues this one way Journey into....?? with the hatred or misunderstanding of Homosexual Men and Women.
It's not everyone's cup of Tea, we all know that, but Get over it and move on..
Hear, hear, hear! She's done the right thing. As an Anglican, we need to get real too. We are created in diversity which is God's image, if you look around at Nature. Love is love, and it's amazing to see the brilliance of its complexity and diversity......
All churches should give away half their income to help the very poor, imho. Catholics can reward their church by either leaving it, speaking up, or donating their weekly offerings/tithes to the poor. I think that's what Jesus would prefer :D
This nonsense about whether or not her letter was "theologically sound" or not is not only preposterous, but depressing. The entire point of the letter was the loss of the authentic "theology" that Christ's message brought to bear--caring for the most vulnerable, even if it's unpleasant work, and genuinely loving them, not abusing them and telling them it's "love." She's 100% correct. The Church (and even some of the commenters on here) are the new Pharisees, the new "whited sepulchres" who "know" every detail of "the law," but haven't the faintest idea of how it actually works with real people. Instead of meddling in the filth of politics, moral or otherwise, and flouncing around in robes and jewels, it's time for these people to STFU and get to work. And that's not just advice for the church, it's advice to those who call themselves "Christians" but thrive on the misery of others, often at their own hand.
That letter is beautifully phrased, but theologically unsound.
Jesus was indeed very tolerant of groups of people who were generally ostracised at the time, and he was also very firm that it is not the job of humans to actively punish sinners - that responsibility is God's alone. But there was never even a hint of a suggestion that sex between people other than a married man and woman *wasn't* sinful.
There is (for example) a famous occasion in the early part of John ch.8 when the pharisees bring a woman to him who has been caught in the act of adultery, and ask him if she should be stoned to death according to the law. Jesus initially tries to ignore them, but eventually looks up briefly and says "He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her."
Struck by conscience, they all quietly turn and leave, one at a time, leaving Jesus and the woman alone. Jesus then says "Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?" She replies "No man, Lord." Jesus says "Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more."
The UNAMBIGUOUS message here is that what she has done IS a sin. Jesus does not condemn her for it - he forgives her - but also tells her firmly that she must not do it again - "go, and sin no more".
I could quote plenty of other examples. Paul actually went a lot further than that. He himself was a celibate, and stated that celibacy was preferable to marriage for anyone with self-control; for those lacking in self-control he said (rather grudgingly) that it was better to marry than to burn (burn with passion, that is, not burn in Hell).
1 Corinthians, chapter 7:
1: It is good for a man not to touch a woman.
2: Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.
[...]
6: But I speak this by permission, and not of commandment.
7: For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that.
8: I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I.
9: But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.
All in all, you cannot get away from the fact that sex of any kind other than between a man and woman married to one another *is* a sin, and anyone calling themselves a Christian is a hypocrite if they don't believe that.
Of course, the sensible response to all of this is to say "It is obvious to anyone possessing even a glimmer of humanity or intelligence that non-heterosexuality is NOT something that should be condemned, and I therefore REJECT IN ITS ENTIRETY any belief system that requires me to condemn it" - and then to abandon Christianity like the absurd anachronism it is. Sadly, it is unlikely that a Roman Catholic archbishop will take that position; and probably the best thing to do is to just to let him to stew in his own juices and move on.
Shasarak.
I come from a Catholic family sadly.
You are missing the point of what this wonderful woman wrote. She was asking the church to live in the "now" and face the issues of today. She stated that she has been married for over 30 years and could not see a threat to her marriage. She stated she knew gay people who are spiritual. She has love and acceptance in her heart and lives in the world as it is now.
Your doctrines and the stuff you quote was written at a point in time by flawed people. (as we all are)The world has moved on. We have science, we have alternative ways of living that hurt no-one. We are moving rather slowly to a society that is "inclusive". We work together and for each other more and more each day.
Religion is stuck in the past, is divisive, separates people, is more interested in power than people and we the masses see this as we are better educated.
I look forward to a day when religion is seen as witch craft and goes the way that witch burning has gone. Church numbers are falling but not fast enough. St Peters Basilica disgusts me for what it really stands for. It's not needed anymore. (Sadly it will not happen in my life time)
However lets celebrate this wonderful woman and "her" views. That's what matters I'd humbly suggest. I wish you well
Best feel good story I have read in a long time. You go girlfriend.
..."BUT WHOSO SHALL OFFEND ONE OF THESE LITTLE ONES WHICH BELIEVE IN ME, IT WERE BETTER FOR HIM THAT A MILLSTONE WERE HANGED ABOUT HIS NECK, AND THAT HE WERE DROWNED IN THE DEPTH OF THE SEA." That is what Jesus apparently said! I've been making documentary films and news reports concerning institutional child abuse for the last five years. Also, myself and my seven siblings were abused in the Catholic institutions & the C of E institutions in the UK, and trust me, just for the church institutions (priests/vicars whatever they want to call themselves) we are going to need a lot of millstones ... it would be a bigger job than the pyramids! Personally I think the sexual abuse that was evilly perpetrated upon hundreds of thousands of victims by the church, just in this country, in fact possibly many more than hundreds of thousands has turned out the light of truth and love that I think ALL decent human beings would understand. And we mustn't forget those that have taken their own lives due to abuse and the pious condemnations of their churches hypocritical doctrines, or the many dysfunctional families these outrageous crimes have created. The church needs to listen to what this wonderful lady is saying, especially the opulence - and don't forget, the bankers are the moneylenders! God bless all victims and survivors. Bill Maloney (heterosexual male, 37 years married with one gay brother and one gay sister - God rest her soul).
Carry on being fabulous, folks!
Straight, not narrow :-) xx
What a woman. Thank you so very much for supporting me and my fellow gays. Your letter is to the point and I feel speaks for the silent majority who for what ever reason cannot show they care.
I wish you would publish your letter in the mass media so that the country can see it. I wish you happiness, long life and a continued warm heart. X
If she could be Queen only in our hearts, then, at least, make this Noble Lady a Dame!
Congratulations UK!!!!!!!
@nealfjr ... Like a lot of religious hypocrites, you are completely missing the point of her letter (and your religion). So the answer is to expel people who want sensible dialogue? You just prove the point that I've often heard that the catholic church is out of touch and irrelevant. From my understanding her letter is far more in keeping with what Jesus stood for than anything I've ever seen written on the subject. Ever heard of Francis of Assisi?
nice letter. now can we get your letter of intent to leave the church or would you prefer we ask the Archbishop send you a letter of excommunication. it appears you have no desire to be obedient to the Church or your Bishop.
Power and oppression says "be obedient" whether this is a government or a religious institution but it is particularly sinister when it wraps itself in the fancy dress of religion. No where in the Gospel does Jesus say to be "obedient" to a bishop BUT he does say if you want to lead you have to serve and you have to be the servant of all!
Your are not seriously telling this wonderful soul that she is to "obey" bishops who have willingly and with malice aforethought protected priests and probably some of their own who raped children!
Besides anyone who prances around in silk dresses with gold and jewels fit for a queen is never to be taken too seriously! Every well grounded drag queen knows that!
WOW! Sharing this one too! I love this lady! ...
Shared before I read the full letter...and I am copying whole piece to my Evernote file
and sending it to everyone I know!
Thank her for us.
Happily married (42+yrs) HET, only too glad to proudly be for
FULL EQUAL RIGHTS for ALL LGBTQI !
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